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Listing
of Past Listserv Discussions
November 2003:
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Subject: Diptera
redefined with new specimen
Date: 11/1/03
From: Ron buckley ronbuckley@fuse.net
Hi, a new discovery
in Burmite has redefined Diptera. A fly called a "Beetle Fly"
(Celyphidae) has just
been discovered in Burmite. The importance is that up until today it
was believed that only primative
flys existed in this time period, and no advanced fly like this has
ever been found- only primative flys.
To my knowledge the beetle fly has never been found in Dominican amber,
Baltic amber and not in
Burmite amber. Needless to say this is a very important scientific find.
The Beetle Flys are found only
in subtropic climates like Indonesia, but not in South America. Thanks,
Ron
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Subject: Diptera
redefined with new specimen
Date: 11/2/03
From: Phil Rea philrea@qmx.co.uk
Wow!! A Cyclorrhapha
in Burmite. What an incredible find!!
Well done Ron,
Jim & Co.. Keep the interesting stuff coming :)
Phil.
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Subject: Beetle
fly (Celyphidae)
Date: 11/2/03
From: Ron buckley ronbuckley@fuse.net
Hi Here are three
more pictures of the new beetl fly. Ron
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Subject: Amber
or resin deposits in the Kansas strata?
Date: 11/3/03
From: tamber12@netscape.net
Doug, I sent this
message yesterday, and it never came back to my mailbox. I think there's
a glitch or
something. Anyway, could you see that it gets on the list serve?
Hi folks, I have
a geologist in Kansas who does lots of public education work with kids.
He wants to
educate them about amber and is wondering if there is a road cut or
quarry somewhere in Kansas
that might reveal a resin deposit in situ. I know nothing about the
strata in Kansas, so is there someone
out there who can help? C'mon Dorothy, we can put the Scarecrow on the
right track. If not Kansas,
where is the closest deposit to the Wichita area?
Tammi
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Subject: Scorpian
Discovery
Date: 11/9/03
From: Ron buckley ronbuckley@fuse.net
Hi, Yesterday Jorge
Santiago-Blay Ph.D of The Smithsonian Institution, Victor Fet Ph.D of
Marshall
University, and Scott Anderson of Tetra Tech met to analize the new
scorpian find in Burmite. It proved
to be a much more new and exciting find then Jim Davis and I had originally
thought. I will not go into
details as they will be publishing a very detailed paper with pictureson
the new scorpian find. If it were
not for the efforts of Jim Davis of Leeward capital to reopen this long
closed mine in Burma the many
new exciting and important discoveries we are making would have been
lost to science. These new
discoveries are proving to help fill in the history of insect developement.
I found working with Jorge,
Victor and Scott to be a real pleasure and rewarding. Jim and I will
be working with these three gentlemen,
and other scientest in this field in the future by making additional
specimens availble, when possible.
Jorge showed me a new way to shoot pictures which will greatly aid in
my future photography of insects.
An example is the scorpian tail which I can now take pictures even of
the hairs on its tail. It was a very
rewarding experience to meet and work with people of this caliber and
dedication. Ron
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Subject: additional
Date: 11/9/03
From: Ron buckley ronbuckley@fuse.net
Hi Iforgot a picture.
Ron
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Subject: additional
Date: 11/9/03
From: tamber12@netscape.net
Ron, I suppose
you are the one second from the right? Did you meet in DC?
Tammi
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Subject: Scorpion
discovery
Date: 11/10/03
From: Grant Eliott gle@bellatlantic.net
RON,
You will, of course, point us in the right direction when these esteemed
gentlemen's paper is published.
An experience such as this must be very satisfying to you. It transcends
whatever monetary value
this specimen may represent. Not many of us in our lifetimes will find
something that is unique and
important to science, but the thrill of exploration, possible discovery,
and ultimate knowledge is, I am
certain, what makes all of us tick. I will expect you and Jim Davis
to keep these specimens coming.
Who knows what discoveries await-
Your Friend, GRANT
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Subject: Scorpion
discovery
Date: 11/10/03
From: Ron buckley ronbuckley@fuse.net
Dear Ron,
thank you very much again for your hospitality and the opportunity to
work with this unqiue specimen
of scorpions. We are really excited to put together all our observations.
As I said, our colleague Michael
Soleglad will join the team of authors doing important comparisons of
the Burmese specimen (based on
our pictures and observations) and modern scorpions, including the closest
relative, Chaerilus from Asia.
We hope to produce a good draft of the future paper sometime after New
Year, and will be in touch with
you on scorpion front -- and I am sure Jorge has other amber interests
to discuss!
Once again, great hanks to you and your wife,
Victor
Victor Fet
Department of Biological Sciences
Marshall University,
Huntington, WV 25755-2510 USA
phone (304) 696-3116, fax (304) 696-3243
http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/Fet.htm
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Subject: shooting
with glycerin
Date: 11/10/03
From: Ron buckley ronbuckley@fuse.net
Hi, I have received
many emails about shooting with glycerin. Attached is a first attempt
with glycerin
taking a picture of the hairs on the spike on the tail. I couldnt even
see that they were there before. Ron
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Subject: thrill
of discovery
Date: 11/10/03
From: Ron buckley ronbuckley@fuse.net
Hi Grant, you are
absolutly right. I probably spend an average of thirty hours a week
when I am not
working, to go through amber and shoot pictures. But I am just in at
the very end. Jim Davis arranged
at great expense of time and effort to open up the mine. The amber is
mined and then carried out by
elephant. A fellow by the name of Ko Ko goes through the amber to find
the insects, then he and his
family polish and he gives a preliminary id. The amber goes up to Jim.
He and his wife also find the
insects , polish them and give a preliminary id also. Then there is
Ted a fantastic entomologist who
not only finds the insects with his son but also helps us with a good
ID. So there has been a termendous
effort by a lot of people before it even comes to me. The thrill for
me is two fold: 1).finding something
that looks strange or different then the norm. 2) the challege of trying
to take a good picture fighting
my way through fractures, air bubbles, reddish amber and the calcite
glow that is given off by Burmite.
In the end to find something like a mushroom, snakefly or a scorpian
is just fantastic. To work with the
various scientest and see their eyes open up real big at a new discovery
is a real thrill. I think a lot of
people dont realize that this amber represents where all of the insects
were derived from and each
and every one of them to me is a halotype and very rare. I have been
very lucky to be involved in this
adventure. Thanks, Ron
You will, of course, point us in the right direction when these esteemed
gentlemen's paper is published.
An experience such as this must be very satisfying to you. It transcends
whatever monetary value
this specimen may represent. Not many of us in our lifetimes will find
something that is unique and
important to science, but the thrill of exploration, possible discovery,
and ultimate knowledge is, I
am certain, what makes all of us tick. I will expect you and Jim Davis
to keep these specimens coming.
Who knows what discoveries await-
Your Friend, GRANT
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Subject: raw amber
Date: 11/13/03
From: ah4764@yahoo.com
Does anyone know
of any wholesale suppliers of raw
Baltic amber? Thank you.
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Subject: Texas
Amber
Date: 11/13/03
From: tamber12@netscape.net
Doug, could you pass this along? I seem to have problems with my messages
coming through on the list
serve from time to time. Folks, I need to know if anyone has ever found
amber in Texas, particularly the
Huntsville area. Any info about the strata underfoot there, any sedimentary
rocks that would support
resin deposits, perhaps some lignite beds? Soon as I can gather some
info, I may have some very
interesting news. I also need to find someone in the Huntsville area
who might inspect a specimen, a very
large specimen, found there. We need to check it for flora and fauna.
Any help would be appreciated!
Tammi
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Subject: chiapas
amber
Date: 11/14/03
From: Glen Osborn gosborne@Shaw.ca
if you are interested
here is a new web site that sells only Chiapas amber, there are also
some good pics
of the area around Simojovel, Chiapas. glen osborne www.chiapasambercreations.com
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Subject: Very interesting
news on Texas ambe
Date: 11/10/03
From: tamber12@netscape.net
Folks, I need some
input and there may be an excellent research opportunity for the right
person here.
The reason I was asking earler about amber in Texas, is because a fellow
contacted us about a particularly
large specimen, 30 pounds+ that came to his attention. Seems a lady
found it about 30 years ago sticking
up out of the ground on her family ranch in Huntsville. I'm sending
along photos of the piece, and he is
forwarding a small piece to me for my eyeball appraisal. If this turns
out to be what I think it is, then the
potential exists for a great discovery. I'm doing a little more research
on the area and have contacted a
geologist in the are. I'm attaching the photos for your enjoyment, and
perhaps one of you in the area would
agree to have a look at this piece personally. If so, then contact me
and I'll put you in touch with the young
man who came to me with this very intriguing situation.
Cheers,
Tammi
Here
is the Zip File
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Subject: Disappointing
news about Texas amber
Date: 11/22/03
From: Ron buckley ronbuckley@fuse.net
Well folks, it
happened again. Instead of being a bright new discovery of amber on
American soil,
somehow we ended up with a very large chunk of plastic supposedly found
sticking up out of the
ground on a ranch in Huntsville, Texas 30 years ago. My theory is that
the guy at the gallery who
contacted me is being taken for a major ride and someone wanted him
or someone else to lay down
a large chunk of money for a piece of plastic. Or, it could be an honest
mistake. Perhaps she lived
near a river, it washed as cargo off a boat or barge, got caught up
in flood plain sediments and she
stumbled onto it. Who knows. Anyway, I'm disappointed for them, and
for myself. If anyone else
would like to have a look at this piece he sent me, I'd be happy to
pass it along.
My reasons for
thinking it is plastic are these: just in the initial feel of the piece,
alarm bells rang
in my head. If you've held enough amber in your hand, then hold a piece
of plastic and you'll know
what I mean. And it didn't smell right when burned. Amber has a sweet,
piney smell that is pleasant.
Plastic or fake resins have an acrid, strong chemical smell, like this
piece did. Under the scope, all
the breakage angles were too sharp. Amber has natural flow planes, swirls,
easy flowing qualities
to it - this had none of that. I guess I could still be wrong, but I
don't think so. Anyone else want to
back up my conclusion or maybe prove me wrong?
Tammi
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Subject: Response
from gallery on Texas amber
Date: 11/22/03
From: tamber12@netscape.net
Folks, the jury
may not be out on this one yet. My opinion is that it's plastic, and
nothing would please
me more in this case than to be proven wrong. Here is what the gallery
owner had to say when I gave
him my conclusion. Anyone else interested can contact him at www.eagledancergallery.com:
Hello Tammi,
Thanks for the
review on the piece I sent to you. I really appreciate your candid opinion.
How well am I acquaintd
with the seller...Not very well. She found me through the appraisal
business
I have in the Houston area.
The tests you have
run...So far we are split on the deductions from testing. One source
I rely on here
in the Houston area for verification of gems other than amber initially
said it looked to be plastic. Later
he agreed he was not very familiar with amber and requested his findings
be verified further, hence
my dialog with you. I have recently had a GIA grad look at the specimen
and after doing several tests
{including the burn test} she determined the specimem to be authentic.
She looked at the specimen
using a UV lamp under long and short wave and also measured the refraction
using a Dichroscope.
She said the UV lamp test shows the specimen "floureses in the
usual grayish blue under the long wave
and a weaker dusty grey/blue under the short wave as natural amber should."
She said the dichroscope
reading shows the specimen to be "singly refractive" as amber
should do.
The GIA grad suggested
to confirm her findings we need to have the specimen looked at using
a
"gas spectrometer" and/or "radiocarbon C-14" dating
equipment. An archeologist was in attendance
with the GIA grad while she did her review and he agrees with the authenticity
of the specimen as well.
Question...With
the findings of your burn test withstanding, how could a "plastic"
or "resin" specimen
hold up to the acetone test???. I have seen plastics used fairly often
in the jewelry I appraise and have
yet to run across a plastic that can withstand the rigors of acetone
testing without at the very least
some degree of disintegration. Some "resins" manfactured in
the Orient and in Mexico that I have seen
used in costume jewelry will indeed hold in place under rigorous acetone
tests but even they will
breakdown somewhat, leaving a sticky or tacky feel to the touch. The
pieces I have tested fromm the
large specimen show none of that. Initially I thought the perhaps the
specimen could be some sort
of volcanic glass which would reveal the same results as the amber under
the acetone test but then
I realized the specimen would weigh much, much more if it were indeed
volcanic glass. Again, I am
led back to the specimen being amber. The presence of a most distinctive
tree bark imprint on one
side of the specimen coupled with the fact the specimen follows the
conchoidal fracture pattern, the
background of the owner, the imense size of the specimen, the fact it
would not make any sense at
all for some one to create a "fake" specimen {especially this
size} due the inevitable scrutiny a specimen
this size would generate {once the artists decided to sell the fake}...all
lead me to believe in it's
authenticity. It just doesn't add up that it would be fake.
But....One never
knows!!! I am highly guarded, very suspicious and quite keen on the
truth. I am
not easily swayed due to possible monitary gain as I am already quite
well off financially and not
"in need". I seek the truth and have a pretty good feel for
honesty when I see it. This discovery is
certianly one of those situations that "makes you go hhmmm"!
The owner and I
do have an appointment with the museum of natural history this Tuesday
the
25th and will get yet another analysis. I will let you know what they
think as soon as the museum
experts complete thier tests.
Again, thank you
Tammi for the analysis from your camp and I will take your results under
advisement.
All the best,
Greg Reynolds,
Eagle Dancer Gallery
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Subject: Re: Response
from gallery on Texas amber
Date: 11/23/03
From: Phil Rea philrea@gmx.co.uk
Well Tammi,
In my opinion,
an Acetone test will prove nothing, because there are many plastics
that are highly
resistant to chemicals. Were it Copal, then it would have reacted with
the Acetone, so that's probably
ruled that out.
I agree with you
that the burn test should not have produced an acrid smell, and as one
who has
handled a fair amount of Amber over the years, I would tend to side
with you on this. I know what
burning Amber smells like, and I also know what it smells like when
you polish it with abrasives.
It is a sweet resinous smell with no trace of acridity. Plastic just
smells plain bad.
I guess a gas spectrometer
will tell us either way, but I am not sure how much help Radiocarbon
dating will be, as it only has a range of 50,000 years if I remember
correctly. I suppose it would
tell us if it is modern, but a gas spectrometer would identify it as
plastic anyway, and if that's the
case it's not going to be older than 1860 or so, unless it's a major
new discovery or we have
another Roswell!
Thanks for keeping
us informed Tammi.
Phil.
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