Listing of Past Listserv Discussions

January, page 2, 2006:

Subject: Re: Care and preservation of Collection Pieces
Date: 1/24/2006
From: jfudala@comcast.net

Captain S.F. Hannay was the first European to visit the Burmese amber mines in 1836. He states "The deeper the pits are dug, the finer the amber; and that that kind which is of bright and pale yellow, is only got at the depth of forty feet under ground." (V.V. Zherikhin, A. Ross: Bull. Nat. Hist. Mus. Lond.(Geol) 56 June 2000)
Obviously this is not the kind of Burmese amber reaching us recently which is from shallow edges of the valley where it had a lot more contact with oxygen and the color changed to darker, and reds are also found.
It is the same with Mexican amber that red pieces are only found in shallow parts of the mines.
Baltic amber doug from sand dunes is also more red than from any other location.
Inclusions in Mexican amber are not very well preserved, in fact they look a lot like inclusions in Baltic amber that was "cooked" in an autoclave. Chemistry differences aside, it maybe that the mountain forming geological pressures and temperatures "cooked" and stabilized Mexican amber to a point that the volatile components are already gone and room temperature drying is a lot slower. I do not believe however, that it would be immune to surface oxidation. That's why so many red pieces from layers oxygen could reach will crumble.
Cretaceous amber from Wyoming many times the age of Mexican amber, so changed by pressure and temperature that inclusions dissolved- pieces from shallow layers crumble to dust.

Just my observations and thoughts...
John

----- Original Message -----
From: ADAM SPIEGEL
To: amberlistserv
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Care and preservation of Collection Pieces

In Oaxaca, Mexico, there is the Regional Museum. A large and beautiful museum of pre-Columbian art and artifacts. It is housed in an old convent, which dates from the 16th or 17th Century. If you are in the area, I recommend seeing this museum.

One of the exhibits there is the treasure found in Tomb 7 at Monte Alban, a pre-Columbian archaeological site near the city of Oaxaca. Although Monte Alban was built by the Zapotec civilization, many of its tombs were re-used by the succeeding Mixtecs. The Tomb 7 treasure was Mixtec in origin; the Mixteca were great goldsmiths and lapidaries.

Part of the treasure is objects worked in amber. These objects have been out of the ground for about 1000 years. They are kept in a dark room and in a glass case, but so are many other artifacts. I think the room is dark only for i! ts "tomb-like" feeling, in other words, for theatrical effect, for the other objects from Tomb 7 on display are not affected by light, such as gold, turquoise or jade. Similarly, I do not think that the case is air tight. However, it would be interesting to know if in fact the museum curators have indeed designed the exhibit in order to minimize or prevent deterioration of the amber. I personally doubt that very much, but I could be wrong.

By way of 15 years of experience with only Chiapan amber, which is the only kind of amber I sell, I have never heard of Chiapan amber decomposing over time. If it does, it would take way more than 10 years. None of my pieces have changed color or decomposed. Superglue is used during polishing of Chiapan amber only in order to stabilize surface fractures, not to prevent it from a total decomposition. Certainly a lot of the red rough is crusty and fall! s apart to powder, that is why good polished pieces are rare and getting more expensive every day. The red rough is NOT infused with superglue in order to be able to work it. If the piece doesn't hold up, it is discarded.

Once again I am attaching JPEGs of real, untreated Chiapan red amber currently in my inventory. You can see the color is really red because we all know what the color is of a shiny US penny. I will be going to Chiapas for about a month in the near future. I will ask my contacts about all this decomposition talk. But if the Mixtec amber pieces from Tomb 7 are not decomposing, then it is kind of a moot point, unless any of us expects to be around in 800 to 1000 years.

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From:
Sent:1/25/2006
Subject: collinsmarko@hotmail.com

Hi folks,
I finally recovered my photos of the spider to share with you.
The spider has a 26mm leg span, I have no idea what genus it is, suggestions welcome. Also in the piece is a 12mm long horn beetle, and two 9mm alates. This is baltic amber, i look forward to any feedback offered.
Best regards,
Mark

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Subject: Re: Giant spider photo...
Date: 1/25/2006
From: keith.luzzi@db.com

Mark,

For identification of fossil spiders we recommend Dr. David Penney of the University of Manchester, he has studied and described NJ amber spiders, Burmese amber spiders, Dominican amber spiders etc:

http://www.earth.man.ac.uk/research/projects/1/site/dp.html

regards
__________________________
Keith Luzzi
Deutsche Bank AG [/] New York
WBSS-NYC / Asset Management
Enterprise Technology - Distributed Systems
Phone: +1-973-682-3430
Mobile: +1-973-809-0846
email: keith.luzzi@db.com

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Subject: Better Photo of giant spider....
Date: 12/25/2005
From: collinsmarko@hotmail.com

Hi all,
The last photo i sent somehow got caught up in a Kodak photo program, so here's a much better picture. The condition of the spider is truly exsquisite.
enjoy,
Mark

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Subject: Re: Better Photo of giant spider....
Date: 1/25/2006
From: epiphany@cableone.net


Stunning photo.. makes me drool!!!

Thanks for sharing!

Michelle

Subject: Re: Better Photo of giant spider....
Date: 1/28/2006
From: franjam@mcleodusa.net

NOW mr. jung tells me. love franjamns."

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Subject: Burmite
Date: 1/29/2006
From: ronbuckley@fuse.net

Hi, the Burmite with insect inclusions have arrived safely. I should have them delivered to me in a week, then have some loaded on ebay two sundays from now. I am told there are some nice inclusions. Some nice carved pieces have arrived also. Large rare pieces of Burmite have not arrived and will come later. Ron

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Subject: Cavorting in the Cretaceous, or, Postcards from Barnie
Date: 1/29/2006
From: tbuck22@optonline.net

Hi gang.

Well, I've taken a few more pictures and I think they came out pretty well.

Thanks to David Lamb for getting me hooked on Burmite, I'll forever be in his debt. It's not only easier to grind and polish, it's very strong when compared to the New Jersey cretaceous i've become accustomed to.

#1 is a partial fly....any educated guesses?
#2 is an oak flower hair, which I thought only occurred in Baltic amber.
#3 is a spider web
#4 is a grouping of fungal sporangia.
#5 is ??? , but I had my daughter convinced it was a dinosaur's finger tip....complete with nail. ; ) . Notice the "pebbled" texture around the nail, gives it a distinct animal-look, don't you think?

That's it for now, I hope you enjoy the photos. Next I'll try to shoot a fly found in New Jersey amber.

Best regards,
Tom

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Subject: Green Amber
Date: 1/30/2006
From: stoneage@vermontel.net

I am just wanting to confirm what I believe I already know. Am I right in saying that the dark bluish green Baltic amber with bangles is always dyed? I know the bangles are from heat treatment. I remember reading that the Baltic green is extremely rare.

Derek Levin

www.gemmaker.com

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Subject: Re: Green Amber
Date: 1/30/2006
From: Maggiecatbird@aol.com

Hi Derek, My best answer to your green amber question is yes - anything that is too green has been dyed or treated one way or another. You may have seen those emerald green pieces in shopping malls - I understand that this is citrine (yellow) amber that has been treated and, of course, black jeweler's paste applied to the back to make it appear more green. In my specimen collection, I have one very nice piece of green amber, and it is cloudy and mossy - nothing like what you see in jewelery displays. I have also been told that the Amber Association of Poland (I hope I have the name right) approves this treated amber being called "green amber" because not only is it amber and it's green, but it sells.
Best, Maggie

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Subject: Re: Green Amber
Date: 1/30/2006
From: jfudala@comcast.net

Hello everyone,
as a member of the Amber Association I would like to show you the current terminology aproved by the Association.
While I myself love the natural beauty of Baltic amber, I also understand that only a handfull of people appreciate this.
The amber jewellery business in Poland consumes 200 tons of amber per year. Popularity of enhanced amber is what drives the market- the Association has zero effect on this.
They try however, to ensure truth in marketing offers of its members, uniformity in product terminology.

www.sbp.org.pl International Amber Association

The Terminology and Definitions of Gemstones made of Baltic Amber (succinite)
The above classification was adopted by the Expert Commission on Qualification of the International Amber Association at its session of 9 May 2005.

Natural Baltic amber (succinite) - subject only to mechanical treatment (for instance: grinding, cutting, turning and polishing) without any change to its natural properties.

Improved Baltic amber (succinite) - in which changes to its physical properties, including clarity and colour, have been artificially induced using thermal treatment.

Multi-element Baltic amber (succinite) – gemstone consisting of two or more pieces of natural, improved or pressed Baltic amber glued together with the appropriate colourless binding material.

Pressed - reconstructed Baltic amber (succinite) - gemstone made of small amber grains and/or amber meal pressed in high temperatures and under high pressure without additional components.

Note:
In order to underscore or change the natural colour of amber, it is permissible to use foil or flakes made of precious metals and colour backdrops made of enamel or paint in jewellery products decorated with Baltic amber (succinite) gemstones.

Classification of the raw material and semi-finished products made of Baltic amber (succinite)
The above classification of raw material and semi-finished products made of Baltic amber (succinite) for the purpose of its use in jewellery and art was adopted by the Expert Commission on Qualification of the International Amber Association at its session on 9 May 2005.

• Deposit origin
- amber from the Baltic (including beach mines),
- amber from glacial accumulations,
- amber from Sambia (from Sambian deposits),
- amber from the Ukraine (Ukrainian amber),
- amber from Bitterfeld (Saxon amber),
• Form of raw material • Structure
- barrel-shaped,
- plates,
- drops, icicles,
- irregular - solid,
- layered.

• Transparency • Organic impurities
- transparent
- translucent
- opaque - pure
- with small inclusions
- impure, porous

• Weight (table)

The classification of raw amber material based on nugget weight approved by the Expert Commission on Qualification on 20 November 1999.

• Prefabricated raw material
- hewed,
- nuggets cleaned in grinders,
- sanded,
- subject to thermal treatment (roasted) in loose material and liquids,
- in autoclaves,
- whole amber nuggets pressed to form cabochons, beads and other forms.

• Pressed semi-finished products

- amber plates and rolls with a uniform structure, without binding material,
transparent and bright,
- plates and rolls made of pressed amber with a uniform structure, clouded and
opaque,
- uniform pressed pieces of amber, with the addition of pigments,
- pressed pieces of amber with traces of the contact between grains or streaks
of red detritus
- amber plates and rolls with compound structure with the addition of
binding material – pure amber meal.

Classification of Baltic Amber (Succinite) Imitations
The above classification of Baltic amber (succinite) imitations was adopted by the Expert Commission on Qualification of the International Amber Association at its session on 9 May 2005.

Baltic amber (succinite) imitations: raw material, semi-finished products or products made of surrogate, usually cheaper material, similar in appearance to amber, but with different chemical and physical properties.

These are:

1.

natural or modified sub-fossil resins, for instance Colombian copal and New Zealand Kauri copal.
2.

artificial materials: glass, celluloid, polyesters, phenol resins and others.
3.

Baltic amber (succinite) pressed with the addition of plastics or copal.
4.

small Baltic amber (succinite) grains imbedded in natural or artificial resins.

Classification of Fossil Resins
The above classification of fossil resins was adopted by the Expert Commission on Qualification of the International Amber Association at its session on 9 May 2005.

Fossil resins are defined by the term “amber” (in the broader sense: as fossil resins, but not as succinite) and an adjective to determine the area of their occurrence.
These include the following products in the market: Dominican amber, Mexican amber, amber from Borneo, whose content of amber acid varies from 0 to 3%. Also many other fossil resins of importance to collectors and scientists.

Fossil resins which have their own customary name given to them by a researcher, i.e. the creator of the type of the given variety of resin, who discovered it and was the first to publish its properties. These include the following resins which appear in the product market: burmite, rumenite and simetite. Plus many other fossil resins of importance to collectors and scientists.

The Expert Commission on Qualification will present a motion to the Executive Board of the International Amber Association to exclude from its recommendations those firms who trade in products from the abridged classification of fossil resins and imitations referred to above.

Fossil resins which accompany Baltic amber in its deposits:

1.

gedano-succinite can be determined only in laboratory studies. In its treatment it is practically indistinguishable from succinite. We do, however, distinguish the so-called accompanying resins which occur with succinite deposits, of which some are quite easy to distinguish from Baltic amber:
2.

yellow, transparent gedanite, with a typically white weathered surface.
3.

the extremely rare black stantienite, which produces very good sheen (the “black amber” which occurs in the market is produced either
by pressing or by changing its colour in an autoclave; it is confused with jet coal).
4.

other “soft” and “hard” black resins, occurring in somewhat greater amounts in the Bitterfeld deposit, differing in hardness from stantienite.
5.

glessite, in different colour varieties, polishes well, occurs more commonly in amber accumulations in the ?uz.yce region and in the Bitterfeld deposit.
6.

zigburgite: natural polystyrene, occurs also in Germany, dirty-white in colour.

The Expert Commission on Qualification recommends informing the manufacturers of amber products about the scientific importan

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Subject: Accused of selling plastic.
Date: 1/9/2006
From: david.lamb@ns.sympatico.ca

Hi all,

I just had a person accuse me of selling them plastic. I was, to say the least upset, to have someone accuse me of selling anything other than real amber.

At any rate I told them that they could email the list serve to verify I was someone who worked with "amber" and not plastic. After I did this I suddenly realized that it may have been wrong to give out the list-serve email address, so I apologize if I was wrong in doing so.

He/she wanted a certificate of authenticity and I have no way of doing so. The only thing I could think of was you guys (& girls) so I gave out the email address.

At any rate if she writes she will ask about an eBay store called "ambers-amber". Ambers-amber is me.

Don

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Subject: RE: Green Amber
Date: 1/31/2006
From: kirkstephan@hotmail.com

Yup, always dyed, from my info. The natural material from Chiapas is what I always try for.

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Subject: Fungus???
Date: 1/31/2006
From: kga1@bellsouth.net

Anyone want to take a guess on what kind of fungus this is on the stick in the center of the photo--Keith .

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